Future of Ontario Agr As We Know It - Ontario Agriculture2024-03-29T09:39:28Zhttps://ontag.farms.com/forum/topics/future-of-ontario-agr-as-we?commentId=3646443%3AComment%3A2167&feed=yes&xn_auth=noYour response clearly shows t…tag:ontag.farms.com,2009-11-20:3646443:Comment:23852009-11-20T14:46:40.000ZJoannhttps://ontag.farms.com/profile/JoannVergeer
Your response clearly shows the true weaknesses in agriculture Sara. But don't feel disheartened....the truth about agricultural rights in Ontario has been... still is ... an complete challenge to unearth and expose.<br />
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Yes, I am saying that farmers have unique and constitutionally protected rights... to farm... to production. Ask the minister of OMAFRA. If she is willing, she will point out the clauses in the constitution. If she is willing, she will explain the real meaning of property rights…
Your response clearly shows the true weaknesses in agriculture Sara. But don't feel disheartened....the truth about agricultural rights in Ontario has been... still is ... an complete challenge to unearth and expose.<br />
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Yes, I am saying that farmers have unique and constitutionally protected rights... to farm... to production. Ask the minister of OMAFRA. If she is willing, she will point out the clauses in the constitution. If she is willing, she will explain the real meaning of property rights in the first Act of Ontario. But....from her response.... it appears she is not willing.<br />
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If you look up the official definition of agriculture you will then understand it is NOT and industry. It is NOT a zoning. It is actually a class of people with skills.<br />
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Confucius wrote: “If names be not correct, language is not in accordance with the truth of things. If language be not in accordance with the truth of things, affairs cannot be carried on to success.” That is a simple truth.<br />
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Agriculture has constitutionally protected rights to trade... trade means commerce... which means marketing. Marketing includes the right to transport on EVERY road in Ontario.<br />
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Agriculture in Ontario is under contractual obligations to QE2.<br />
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Hairdressing, car manufacturing, toy making, etc are not under contractual obligations to the Crown.<br />
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Agriculture is part of a Covenant Chain that Mr. McGuinty is leery to explain.<br />
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That means as farmers we have sovereign rights, duties and obligations that are truly unique in Ontario.<br />
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The UN has stated that all countries MUST respect Sovereignty. That means Mr. McGuinty must respect the sovereign rights on Ontario farmers.<br />
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If you wish to protect the future of agriculture then I would suggest that one should delve in the past to understand how we got here in the first place...... a good place to start is the Crown Land Patents Office in Peterborough to find your original land patent... your contract with the Crown. I am not sure how to respond…tag:ontag.farms.com,2009-11-20:3646443:Comment:23732009-11-20T14:15:26.000ZSara Avoledohttps://ontag.farms.com/profile/SaraAvoledo
I am not sure how to respond to that...Agriculture is clearly an industry, one of the biggest in Ontario.<br />
It is not just about the producer but also the supplier and processing sides of things where many many people are employed as well.<br />
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But I think I understand what you are saying as well Joann. We definately can't take agriculture for granted and those that are not aware that "Farmers Feed Cities" need to be educated about what a great, sustainable and environmentally sound ways in which our…
I am not sure how to respond to that...Agriculture is clearly an industry, one of the biggest in Ontario.<br />
It is not just about the producer but also the supplier and processing sides of things where many many people are employed as well.<br />
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But I think I understand what you are saying as well Joann. We definately can't take agriculture for granted and those that are not aware that "Farmers Feed Cities" need to be educated about what a great, sustainable and environmentally sound ways in which our food is produced. I also agree that everyone must know their rights, in order to protect themselves and their businesses but you aren't saying that anyone has a "right" to farm are you?<br />
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I would respond saying that is not true...farming is a business that one or many run with many specialized skills just as a carpenter or a hairdresser or a lawyer or whatever profession you choose, and in running that business one must decide how to make a profit in order to keep that business going, a business that they are hopefully very passionate about...and what greater thing is there than making a living at something you are passionate about?!<br />
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Thanks,<br />
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Sara I would suggest that instead…tag:ontag.farms.com,2009-11-19:3646443:Comment:22972009-11-19T18:53:34.000ZSara Avoledohttps://ontag.farms.com/profile/SaraAvoledo
I would suggest that instead of being cynical, dis-heartened and negative that we as an industry need to look for new ways of doing things...what about the eat local movement where producers are getting higher margins as consumers are being educated about the benefits of buying locally?<br />
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There are many people out there, including myself, with a great amount of pride in the industry and as for leaders, just take a look at the Advanced Agricultural Leadership Program…
I would suggest that instead of being cynical, dis-heartened and negative that we as an industry need to look for new ways of doing things...what about the eat local movement where producers are getting higher margins as consumers are being educated about the benefits of buying locally?<br />
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There are many people out there, including myself, with a great amount of pride in the industry and as for leaders, just take a look at the Advanced Agricultural Leadership Program <a href="http://www.aalp.on.ca" target="_blank">www.aalp.on.ca</a> as a great example of those positive members of our industry trying to make a difference.<br />
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I am not so niave to believe that the industry is perfect, we have many issues...<br />
But thinking we are defeated before we even start can't be a good place to start!<br />
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Sara That is very true Grant. The…tag:ontag.farms.com,2009-11-10:3646443:Comment:21672009-11-10T14:58:12.000ZJoannhttps://ontag.farms.com/profile/JoannVergeer
That is very true Grant. The people in Quebec have a motto: Je me souviens which means "I remember".<br />
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The Quebec farmers have strong representation for a number of reasons and the root lies in remember their rights, duties and responsibilities to the people of the province.<br />
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In Ontario we are led to believe that the government has the authority to do as it wishes in regards to agriculture. Nothing could be farther from the truth! The real difference is our minister, many will say, is…
That is very true Grant. The people in Quebec have a motto: Je me souviens which means "I remember".<br />
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The Quebec farmers have strong representation for a number of reasons and the root lies in remember their rights, duties and responsibilities to the people of the province.<br />
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In Ontario we are led to believe that the government has the authority to do as it wishes in regards to agriculture. Nothing could be farther from the truth! The real difference is our minister, many will say, is ineffective to the point of irrelevance. Mr. McGuinty has had a firm hand on agriculture since becoming Premier. Agriculture has SOVEREIGN rights and as McGuinty is a lawyer, he is well aware of those rights but chooses to run rampant on those rights.<br />
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As mentioned earlier, agriculture is defined as a class of people that till the soil and/or raise stock. Agriculture is not a zoning. Agriculture is not an industry. Agriculture is about a special class of perople, the farmer, with skills applied to natural resources.<br />
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The Minister of Agriculture has an obligation to farmers first and foremost. Not to real estate. Not to industry.<br />
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Peter Drucker said: Management is doing things right; leadership is doing the right things.<br />
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Yes Steve, I heard that we have a minister for agriculture, but for all I know that is an urban legend. IF we have a minister then she is failing on both counts of management and leadership and absolutely ignoring the people she is suppose to represent. Really interesting discussion…tag:ontag.farms.com,2009-11-10:3646443:Comment:21652009-11-10T14:14:07.000ZGranthttps://ontag.farms.com/profile/Grant
Really interesting discussion.<br />
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My experience of the last few years tells me that government is deathly afraid of farmers really pushing back. However, since they can pretty much count on a great swath of Ontario's farmers to not do that they feel pretty safe to do what they want.<br />
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People often point to Quebec as some kind of example for Ontario. They focus on the single farm organization. When they do that they are entirely missing the point of the Quebec experience. What happens in Quebec is…
Really interesting discussion.<br />
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My experience of the last few years tells me that government is deathly afraid of farmers really pushing back. However, since they can pretty much count on a great swath of Ontario's farmers to not do that they feel pretty safe to do what they want.<br />
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People often point to Quebec as some kind of example for Ontario. They focus on the single farm organization. When they do that they are entirely missing the point of the Quebec experience. What happens in Quebec is all about Quebec farmers militancy AND the place in the Quebec 'national' identity farmers hold. Feeding itself, and the self-reliance of the Quebecois are all bound up in how Quebec views its farmers. It is a fundamental difference than in Ontario and that should be the lesson we learn from Quebec. How they run their farm organizations is really irrelevant in that. AMEN Joann!!! At the risk of…tag:ontag.farms.com,2009-11-10:3646443:Comment:21642009-11-10T03:56:04.000ZSteve Twynstrahttps://ontag.farms.com/profile/Steve
AMEN Joann!!! At the risk of sounding like a recent provincial columnist, we DO have a ON Min of Agr that has left a tremendous mark on the ON agr scene. To bad her legacy will be one of a tremendously downsized and uncompetitive industry....but the "safest in the world" for the few consumers that care about these sorts of things! Thank you for the Ritz comment....SAD and SHAMEFUL!
AMEN Joann!!! At the risk of sounding like a recent provincial columnist, we DO have a ON Min of Agr that has left a tremendous mark on the ON agr scene. To bad her legacy will be one of a tremendously downsized and uncompetitive industry....but the "safest in the world" for the few consumers that care about these sorts of things! Thank you for the Ritz comment....SAD and SHAMEFUL! Steve: its not that agricultu…tag:ontag.farms.com,2009-11-10:3646443:Comment:21632009-11-10T03:44:53.000ZJoannhttps://ontag.farms.com/profile/JoannVergeer
Steve: its not that agriculture is becoming irrelevant, we have absolutely zero leadership at both the federal and provincial level and the management of agriculture by our ministers is even worse as witnessed by Minister Ritz's remarks below.<br />
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Isn't it time we requested a real minister at the cabinet table to represent farmers in Ontario? Someone that knows at least something about agriculture, someone that cares about the viability of farmers and their rights. That would be a refreshing…
Steve: its not that agriculture is becoming irrelevant, we have absolutely zero leadership at both the federal and provincial level and the management of agriculture by our ministers is even worse as witnessed by Minister Ritz's remarks below.<br />
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Isn't it time we requested a real minister at the cabinet table to represent farmers in Ontario? Someone that knows at least something about agriculture, someone that cares about the viability of farmers and their rights. That would be a refreshing change and a good place to start.<br />
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<a href="http://www.hursh.ca/">http://www.hursh.ca/</a><br />
Hursh on Agriculture<br />
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November 8, 2009<br />
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Ritz needs his canola facts straight<br />
A front page story in the November 5 edition of the Manitoba Cooperator newspaper doesn’t cast a flattering light on our federal agriculture minister. The story is by reporter Allan Dawson and it’s about the Chinese blockage of Canadian canola due to concerns over blackleg. According to the story, agriculture minister Gerry Ritz said that he told Chinese officials that they needn’t fear their farmers growing Canadian canola because the seed won’t grow. The direct quote by Ritz in the paper is, “I assured them that with the varieties we have now, it’s not going to work because they all have Terminator seeds in them, it’s all genetically modified to get the oil quantity up.” The fact is that Terminator technology is not being used and seed will of course germinate and grow. That’s why canola readily volunteers the year following a crop. It is true that with hybrid varieties, the seed won’t produce as good a crop. However, the comments by Ritz seem to indicate that he has a lot of misconceptions about canola production. If that’s the case, he needs to be better briefed before spreading misinformation to foreign officials. There’s a lot to know about all the different sectors of agriculture and we all have misconceptions. Gerry Ritz should have people around him to help avoid making such errors. I’m Kevin Hursh. Rein, a few years ago i never…tag:ontag.farms.com,2009-11-10:3646443:Comment:21612009-11-10T03:31:35.000ZSteve Twynstrahttps://ontag.farms.com/profile/Steve
Rein, a few years ago i never would have thunk it, buuuutttt, production agr has become mostly disconnected and hence highly irrelevant by the majority of Canadian society (domestic and especially imported). Sadly, recent federal (what??) and provinical elected decision makers and their bureaucrats have tended to reinforce this attitude and treat us as a problem (NMA, Greenbelt, Source Water Protection, Species at Risk, OSPCA, etc, etc) and rely on our quiet perseverance without understanding…
Rein, a few years ago i never would have thunk it, buuuutttt, production agr has become mostly disconnected and hence highly irrelevant by the majority of Canadian society (domestic and especially imported). Sadly, recent federal (what??) and provinical elected decision makers and their bureaucrats have tended to reinforce this attitude and treat us as a problem (NMA, Greenbelt, Source Water Protection, Species at Risk, OSPCA, etc, etc) and rely on our quiet perseverance without understanding the vulnerability of our sectors. The landscape is/has changed as dramatically as the ON auto sector, except we still have over inflated asset values prolonging the day of reckoning. ON has become the market for products that we traditionally exported. I think its time we pulled off the gloves....every other jurisdiction with a strong agr policy has not been afraid to raise cain to demand results of our elected officials and private decision makers! We need to draw a line in the sand regarding imports that do not have to match our over-regulated regime. Its time to publically and shamelessly call the Minister and senior bureaucrats to task for promulgating laws and behaviour that harm our industry. We need leadership not afraid to rock the boat, leadership prepared to pass on the next plum appointment! I would like to see a tight, strong group not unlike the OLA, show up as foreign pork, fruit, veggie, etc. trucks show up at distribution centres, etc....and make a statement as to how lax the standards are relative to ours. Our GFO's should hire economists to study and benchmark every major sector that competes directly with ours..OMAF doesn't want to touch this for obvious reasons! Gotta run for now. Well Steve,
And what are you…tag:ontag.farms.com,2009-11-07:3646443:Comment:20892009-11-07T00:38:44.000Zrein minnemahttps://ontag.farms.com/profile/reinminnema
Well Steve,<br />
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And what are your ideas???? As long as we all stay politically correct we won't get anywhere.<br />
Nov. the 16th the Middlesex federation of Agriculture has Ernie Hardeman on the agenda for their annual mtg. Hope to see all you guys their.It be at Coldstream........
Well Steve,<br />
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And what are your ideas???? As long as we all stay politically correct we won't get anywhere.<br />
Nov. the 16th the Middlesex federation of Agriculture has Ernie Hardeman on the agenda for their annual mtg. Hope to see all you guys their.It be at Coldstream........ Well Steve,
And what are your…tag:ontag.farms.com,2009-11-07:3646443:Comment:20872009-11-07T00:32:13.000Zrein minnemahttps://ontag.farms.com/profile/reinminnema
Well Steve,<br />
And what are your ideas, as long as we all stay politically correct we won't get anywhere.<br />
By the way now I am talking the Middlesex Federation of Agriculture has Ernie Hardeman as speaker at their annual meeting<br />
@ Coldtream Nov. the 16th. Come, bring people and lets talk there .
Well Steve,<br />
And what are your ideas, as long as we all stay politically correct we won't get anywhere.<br />
By the way now I am talking the Middlesex Federation of Agriculture has Ernie Hardeman as speaker at their annual meeting<br />
@ Coldtream Nov. the 16th. Come, bring people and lets talk there .